Oak Street homeowners leaving town

Nate Holman and Nonie Jones, who bought their “dream home” in the 2500 block of Oak Street back in 2006, are packing to leave after gunshots outside their home late Sunday evening. The couple had been featured on the front page of the Vicksburg Post’s Sunday morning edition in a story regarding their love of the house, and their fear of the neighborhood. They accuse the police of being slow to respond to their calls (200 911 calls over the past year), and unconcerned about their predicament, though others in the area have praise for the police. Several factors contribute to the high incidence of crime in the area, and to the VPD’s failure to control it. Give us your opinion: Why is crime so rife along Oak and Speed Streets? What can be done to make the areas safe?

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Published in: on August 21, 2008 at 8:54 pm  Comments (50)  

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  1. The significant statement from the article I read was by Chief Moffet: “..we were not able to find where the house had been shot, and they were not able to point out any bullet holes. No one else reported hearing any shots at the time. It’s very difficult for us to go forward without any evidence of the incident.”

  2. What does that mean?

  3. It would appear to me that the evidence related to a crime was not present in this case. That means that either the police did not investigate; the crime report was not accurate; or a crime occurred but no evidence of that crime was found.

    The police could not find where the bullet entered the house. The police asked the homeowners where the shot entered the house and the homeowners were unable to find where the shot entered the house. That tells me that either the shot went astray or a shot was not fired at the house. Either way the homeowners statement “a single shot followed by someone running away from his house” is only his word, not supported with any collaborating evidence. What can the police do in that case? They have no bullet, no suspect and no evidence.

    I am sad this situation has occurred. I am distraught that the homeowners have chosen to blame the police instead of the criminal. I am most concerned that the bad guys appear to have won this one.

  4. Some thoughts come to my mind about this unfortunate situation. “Buyer Beware” and “Location, Location, Location” are key to real estate decisions and obviously this couple did not listen to their friends and co-workers who warned them it was a rough neighborhood when they bought this house in the 2500 block of Oak St. in May, 2006 as reported in the front page article of the Post on Sunday. Before moving there, the Holmans also should have used common sense to see that problems there outweighed any charm of that house and its beautiful view of the river. Did they not see the hordes of young thugs with saggy pants loitering there day and night totally out of the control of their parents and police? Alarm bells should have gone off in their heads. I am sorry they used poor judgement and made a terrible mistake and are now paying for it.

  5. Jon good point about the real estate location.

  6. Good point and what does it say about the lady from Annabelle who blames everyone else for her failing business? She too is in that neighborhood. Location, location, location!

  7. Do any of you live on oak or Speed Street???

  8. JP, for 15 years I had an office on Washington St. 1 block up the hill from Oak St. with a 4′ by 8′ plate glass window with a panoramic view of the Miss. River and Oak St. below. Daily I could see not only the river traffic but also the “traffic” on Oak St, which often consisted of groups of teenagers walking up and down and hanging out there. They were not in school and certainly not working during the day. Where were the truant officers I often wondered and what were their parents thinking to just let them wander about doing nothing constructive with their lives? Just wasting time…when you have nothing to do at that age, you go looking for trouble and it is easy to find. Five times in 15 years my window was shattered at night and my office burglarized/vandalized despite a security and alarm system connected directly to the police station and my home. Yes, I know Oak St. as well as if I had lived there, which I would never, ever do. I was born at night, but not last night.

    Mayor Leyens has/had a grandiose urban renewal idea to make Oak St. a tourist corridor…open it up…for the magnificent river views and developments of many kinds….and get rid of the blighted areas, etc., etc. This would involve millions for buy-outs not to mention an army of bulldozers and protests from the likes of John Shorter who is opposed to “gentrification” as he calls it. Personally I like Leyens’ idea but I think it will never materialize in my lifetime.

  9. Bertha, the lady at Annabelle is a very nice , hard working person and has invested in Vicksburg. I know for a fact that the crowds of no goods are not helping her business. Visitors come to tour homes or stay at these homes and when they see crowds of people hanging around they do not stay. They move on. Most of the tour homes are not in desirable locations.
    The slum lords can make a huge difference in the area. but they do not care. They just want the money and the good people who live on Speed and Oak pay the price.
    The article in the post stated tht Chief Moffet was having extra patrol, foot patrol, but I have not seen it. My thought is send more..make a difference. The police know the trouble makers and crime are here on these streets
    I do not doubt for one second that the Holman home was fired upon. I have heard gunshots in front of my house.
    Something needs to be done to stop the crime…

  10. Who are these “slum lords?” Call them by name. Lets face them as the “criminals” are facing the Holmans.

  11. Charlie Mitchell wrote a good article in todays paper about this subject.He stated tht law enforcement, housing code enforcement, brighter street lights , maybe even bullet proof surveillance cameras would help in the area. It may take a sustained effot. We need to take our neighborhood back.
    I think the housing code enforcement would certainly take care of lot of the problems. Exactly how many people are suppose to live in a small shotgun house or a small two bedroom house. 10 or more??
    I would be all for any cameras or brighter lights whatevr it would take. I am sure all the thugs are not from this area but certainly come to join in the fun from elsewhere.
    What about those apartments on Marshall and Speed,(the old school building) isn’t that suppose to be for single mothers with their children?? Well it is anything but that…

  12. I really like the ideas of a Housing code enforcement, brighter street lights and bullet proof surveillance cameras. I think that is an excellent idea. However, who is going to watch the cameras? We need man power for that. Who is going to enforce the housing codes? We need man power for that, too? Brighter street lights? I can’t see Entergy bringing in brighter bulbs.

    These are all great ideas, but I think Chief Moffett should hire several more officers specifically to patrol the bad areas. They should only be assigned to those specific areas. They can be the High Crime task force officers or whatever he wants to justify it. No one will complain about that except the criminals.

    I read an article online about a town way north somewhere that set up patrols cars around the clock on each block, 24/7, and strictly enforcing the established curfew a couple of weeks ago. The town also set up patrol cars. The police department actually hired additional officers for these areas specifically for this. I tried to find it again but was unable to locate it. When I read that article, I thought about our trouble spot. Some people complained about that constant presence of police but most of the residents in that area were relieved. There were some groups that claimed it was profiling but if you have the proof that most of the trouble is in that area then what can they say?

  13. In most metropolitian areas security cameras which are now small and affordable can be placed out harm’s reach of thugs. Security cameras can be camaflouge to match the surroundings. In England they have cctv cameras everywhere to moniter suspects. But bright ligts,security cams are real good start. Real terrific idea.

  14. There have been a few patrol cars I have seen around noon. The crime is not happening at noon. I think Bored stiff has a great idea to assign police in this area 24/7… I am all for it. would not complain at all.

  15. Ive been living in this neighborhood all my life and have never had any of these problems but im without a doubt a different breed of man than those of you who are afraid. you have no right to peace of mind or safety if you think that some established order is going to do that for you. If your an upsatnding citizen with no felonies, you buy a gun and bullets and your problem is solved. My grandmother and I are white people and our neighbors are all black families. We have known them for years now and we depend on each other for a multitutde of things. My advice to you all is this:

    I as a white man and a citizen of Vicksburg encourage you all to look up the term “white flight” and get the hell out of this part of town if you cant take the pressure. If you can stand up for yourself and protect your own family then maybe you ought to get to know your neighbors. that is after all how you gain respect.

    The family who left Speed street were arrogant and thats probably the root of why they themselves were forced to leave. We are in the end days people. Protect ya neck or get to steppin.

  16. some people are very territorial.

  17. So are dogs.

  18. You leave dogs out of this or Ill chew up your slippers and howl all night.

  19. Ill be the first one to take the barcode tattoo and microchip. I read 1984 by George Orwell when i was a kid and i know we stand to benefit from the eyes of Big Brother watching.

    Do the cameras come down when they catch the bad guys or do they try to find new enemies?

    I think ill go outside and stand under a light pole.

  20. is that a light pole with or without the light working

  21. Great question Steve. Those kiddos that were throwing rocks at Mark and his dog were trying to break the light bulb. Maybe they wanted to stand under that light pole too.

  22. Ill stand under any light pole in Vicksburg with or without bulbs.

  23. Just shoot to Kill. If anyone shoots at my house it will be a all out war. It’s my constitutional right and no little street punks going to change it. What we need is some people to stand up and blast these people off the street or we need to get a police chief that is from this town and is smarter then a two dollar bill. Let’s take down one block of those houses, put up some trailers, and send in some real rednecks and then we can see forth of july on the southside of Washington.

    The police are lazy in town. Maybe if pace became police chief the turnover and action of police would then have public favor.

    If you live in one of those areas put a trap out. And when some evil person comes up to the trap, shootem down like the dirty evil minded dog they are.

  24. yeah man. we need war on the streets. brilliant idea.

  25. There is already a war on the streets. Neighbors need to watch out for each other.If one hads to call 911 then call your neighbors and have them call also.
    Thi is really a very pretty part of wtown and I think things can change. i have seen it when it was at it’s worst. Really bad.

  26. I think road blocks set up every night from dusk to dawn are in order. If it moves to another area set up road blocks there. Check for insurance, registration and while your at it drugs and guns. I would lots rather pay for extra police to police the area than have one more person shot at or killed. If our police department can’t do it call in the National Guard. A few big guns could get rid of the thugs. I’m sick of excuses.

  27. We are a tourist town and we generate a lot of income from the tourists. I can’t tell you how many time I have seen these poor, befuddled tourists walking the streets along Oak and Speed late in the evening soaking in all the beauty and I am thinking, OMG, I wouldn’t walk there in broad daylight. We have been very lucky we haven’t had some of them murdered. Who knows, the way things get covered up in this town it may have already happened. Do we need to roll down our car window and yell for them to run back to their cars and get out of this town before they get killed?

  28. you people make me sick. Im so glad you all are on your way to graveyards. revolution couldnt come any sooner.

  29. Donna you are so right!! I have thought the very same thing. I do not even walk the block anymore. Very sad..

    Crack fight I hope and pray you can get some Divine Intervention…

  30. Ive owned the Divine Intervention album since it came out in 94. I prefer Reign In Blood bu there were some bangers on DI.

    Please dont pray for me. there are so many others suffering so much that need your prayers much more.

  31. Not talking about an album. I feel sorry that you are so twisted and full of loathing for others. Very sad Life is just to short..

  32. hell yeah. Dicine Intervention is pretty sick but Reign In Blood and South of Heaven are my favorites.

    I dont loathe anybody JP. I really have to much going on in my life to dedicate that amount of energy to another individual i disagree with.

    Im not posting here to make friends or find a church to join. Im here to voice my opinion on issues in my community and join in the discussion of Vicksburg related topics.

    Stop being so judgemental because you have no idea what my religious beliefs are. Just because im not a Christian doesnt mean i dont have faith in a higher power.

    To all the members here you can end the crusade here because Im fully content with my spirituality and thats because it is what works for me.

    your truly
    smokepotworshipsatan
    aka
    crack fight
    aka
    Awesome J

    \m/

  33. Violence doesn’t solve violence.

    What will solve this particular violence is community action. A few rogue individuals simply cannot overcome a community that doesn’t want them there.

  34. how does violence not solve violence? elaborate. please.

  35. Having lived on the 2500 Block of Oak St., only a few doors down from where this shooting took place, I can say this from experience : if you are a respectable white person, DO NOT even consider moving to that area. I no longer live there.
    Crimes DO go “unnoticed” down there…why? The answer is obvious, CORRUPTION in our police department. One poster commented that there are minors out on the streets at all hours, day and night, they are not “looking” for trouble, they ARE trouble, they are DRUG DEALERS who work for a “friend” who rides by to check on them periodically, and give them more dope to sell…now, this “friend”, is the same guy who pays off the police to look the other way, whodathunkit? I have seen this “friend” parked in front of my house at night and, from an upstairs window, seen him giving these kids drugs and guns. If you call the police, they may or may not show up, and if they do, they don’t even get out of their car…just ride by kind of slow. I’m in no way implying that our chief of police is in the pocket of drug dealers, but I wouldn’t doubt for a second that the beat cops responsible for that area are either payed off or threatened, to turn a blind eye to certain activities.
    Oak St. could be some of the most valuable real estate in our city, with its view of the river, and some of the most beautiful sunsets around, instead it is an eyesore and an embarassment to all tax paying citizens who dare to drive through the area.
    Our Mayor has seen the hidden potential of Oak Street, and even started his “urban renewal” project in the area, which I applaud him for. However good his intentions for cleaning up the area may be, I’m afraid all the time and money spent will be in vain because the locals of Oak Street love it just the way it is, and will fight tooth and nail to keep it that way, even if they have to call the NAACP and get dead people to sign petitions banning any improvements to the area, go figure.
    Smokepotworshipsatan, your point about white flight is valid, but you fail to recognize the fact that whites are the master race and should be able to trample on all the others with impunity, and it is our duty to keep our neighbohoods free of all the mongrels who devalue everything that we hold dear, not just for our own benefit, but for our White children and their childrens children. We WILL be taking our neighborhoods back, by violence or through taxation, it’s just a matter of time. At least you don’t advocate martial law like Donna, she would give up all of her constitutional rights just to live there, National Guard? Police? Roadblocks? Sounds like the same mentality of the people who thought it a GOOD IDEA to publish their little article ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE NEWSPAPER and expect no retaliation, what baffles me, is that they were actually SURPRISED by what happened… you koolaid drinkers kill me. K

  36. CelticWarrior88, if white people are the ‘master race’ why did the son of God come to Earth as a non-white man?

    How can a few rogue individuals overcome a community that is against them?

    Why does it have to be only whites that can live there?

    Is the VPD better now than 10 years ago? 5 years ago? Last year?

  37. oh come on with the afro-centric crap, every Christian knows Jesus is a Jew…so wouldn’t that make the Jews the true master race?You failed to pick up the sarcasm of my statement, obviously.It was just Troll bait for smokepotworshipsatan.

    I’m not sure I understand your theory of “a few rogue individuals”, didn’t a few rogue individuals nearly bring our entire country to it’s knees on 9/11?

    I never said it should be only whites who live there(in seriousness), the problem is that no whites CAN live there without being harassed by overtly racist, inconsiderate, gang banging, drug dealing neighbors… and even the respectable people who live there,
    never see, hear, say, or do anything when something illegal is going on because no matter how wrong someones activity is down there, their loyalty still lies with the criminals rather than the greater good, either that or they are intimidated.

    I think the VPD is what it is, an organization made up of people, there has always been corruption and always will be, until the human element is removed, that fact will never change. I do believe that the area can be cleaned up by a hostile takeover of citizens, or through making the area too expensive for the majority who live there, through taxation, which would be alot less messy.

  38. Celtic Warrior, please get your facts straight regarding when people sign petitions: the petitioner explains to a person what the petition is about and asks them if they would like to sign the petition, the person either signs the paper or declines, its an “in good faith” issue, it happens with ALL petitions. Where is the concern with all the people who have moved in The County and voting in The City? NO ID REQUIRED there either. Would you like to blame that on the NAACP too? The NAACP is not trying to ban improvements to that area. Try reading up on Vicksburg’s history. I’ll make it simple for you – many years ago, ‘the whites’ didn’t want to live there, they had ‘the blacks’ live there. There are several elderly who live in that area who have paid their houses off. Now, the city administration wants to come in and build for the elite of society so they can have the ”Million dollar view of the river”, but they only want to give the homeowners a pitance for their house – it’s not even enough money for them to buy another house – these people would have to get a new mortgage. They’re on social security – do you have any idea how far that money does not go????
    As for drug dealing, shootings, gang bangers, generally all criminal activity – it crosses ALL racial lines.

    FYI – there is a white guy living just down from where said shooting took place – he’s got the confederate flag hanging in front of his house, a big one, his house is still standing, he still lives there. What does that tell you??? But clearly, there are other games and manipulations at play. Hostile takeovers/excessive taxation – I guess that’s your Christian way , ‘for the Greater Good’ – for some, as long as it’s happening to someone else, right? You might want to get a different Bible or belong to a different church.

    People are people. There is always a person looking at another person like they are no good – trash and that includes someone looking at you. Whatever one race is doing, another race is doing it. Name one that hasn’t.

  39. It would be fascinating to see documented proof of “the Whites” putting anyone into any particular area of town, especially the Oak Street corridor.I can just imagine “whitey” bussing in the poor blacks and forcing them to live in that beautiful historic district against their will, the whites no longer wanted to live in those beautiful mansions, they had to have someone there after-all, so they put the blacks there. Now that sounds like a piece of revisionist history if I’ve ever heard one.
    The true story: Vicksburg’s once beautiful garden district has become infested with gangs, drugs, and a crime rate that has gone unchecked for years, white homeowners of the area have been forced to leave this once peaceful neighborhood because of relentless threats and intimidation by local gangs.
    The dangerous conditions have forced them to sell their homes, in many cases at a loss, and flee the area… Sounds like a hostile takover to me, Whites lived there peacefully for years until they were forced to cut their losses and run for their lives. Yeah, the blacks were put there. WHO sponsored the petition to stop the “urban renewal”? None other than the NAACP, and there were reports of dead people signing said petition in the Vicksburg Post, read the archives.

    The city was prepared to pay fair market value for all properties, if the NAACP had a vested interest in advancing the colored people, in this situation, they would have helped people improve their homes to raise value, so that they could afford to move to a better neighborhood,without a new mortgage, instead, they waited for white teenage volunteers to come to the area for free, clipping trees, painting, picking up trash…things that responsible homeowners usually handle themselves in order to increase value.

    At no point have I mentioned my religious convictions on this forum, and the statements I make are based on common sense and truth as I see it. At no point have I said that blacks are responsible for the problems of Oak Street, it is you who is implying that. By your logic, crime, gangs, drugs, corruption are synonymous with the black race.
    The problem of Oak Street is not about race, it’s about crime. And the topic is about how to make the area safe for everyone, not just NAACP members and a token white guy.

    People who live in the county and own businesses in the city should be able to vote in city elections, you think they don’t pay taxes to the city? And I do believe that a racist organization such as the NAACP would help non-business owners who live in the county vote in city elections if it serves their agenda, after all, everyone knows they have the “greater good” at heart, don’t they?

  40. The problem is crime!!! No one should have to put up with it or have to leave their home. Changes can be made and Law Enforcement need to make it happen.
    All the officials know it is a problem area and they have the power to make change.
    I think if ever arrested these scoundrels will be put away..
    I think that many of the people that live on oak street were definitely misguided about the Mayors plans. I hope the mayor will not give up his vision for this historic part of town. Just imagine what it could look like.

  41. We moved into this area last year. We found a nice home with an incredible view. We have met all of our neighbors and are on friendly terms with all of them. One neighbor had parties this summer late into the night and they spread into his yard. I spoke with him about it, mostly the noise factor and it got better.

    A couple of weeks later at another party one of the party goers wandered over towards my yard and approached my daughter as she was getting home from work. Because of his condition, ‘gangster’ appearance and rough approach to her she was frightened. The next morning I called the police to ask that they pick up patrol in the area. It took about two weeks for the parties to cease, but they did cease. I am still on friendly terms with this neighbor…but he hasn’t invited me to any of his parties either.

    That is the only problem we have had in this area that most would consider one of the roughest parts of town. When we go for a walk or are out we say hello to everyone, have had neighborhood kids help us unload groceries and all the other things one would do in their neighborhood.

    When I hear comments like the above that whites are run out by blacks it makes me wonder what the whites did to deserve that kind of treatment. Treat people with respect and you will get it in return. If you have so much bias that you can’t interact with someone of the opposite race then you shouldn’t move into that neighborhood.

  42. Thugs do not have respectfor anyone , that is part of the problem.

  43. Celtic Warrior. Do you know who I am and do I know you? I dont believe in all that master race white power propaghanda. Thats not how i was raised and thats not what i beleive.

    I have lived near the Citgo station for most of my life and the Oak Street Corridor is my stomping ground.

    My friends are multi racial and we are the generation that has made the most progress in that area. I have some of my dearest friends who have grown up through the 80s and 90s in this area. There are some bad ones and there are many good people from these areas.

    so no Troll baiting racism for me. Im not what you thought i might be.

    I dont have any problems with any of the people around here or what they do and I gaurantee you all that i see things from the front lines around here and not from spying out of my windows. I know the drug dealers and i know the tax payers alike. I treat everyone the same way. respectfully. and in return i believe I am respected on a variety of levels for being down to earth like that.

    on the other hand im known as a person in this neighborhood that you do not play with like that. If someone threatens me or my home then i protect myself with registered guns to the death if need be. I fought my way through this neighborhood and Im still here with striped. My neighbors near and distant all know that I deserve my respect. When I have a problem i dont call the police because never once have they been able to help me and to be perfectly honest I dont believe they are all 100% trustworthy.

    Im not so sure they are being paid off but i do believe they want to make it through the work shift without having to make a hard or dangerous arrest.

    I also know for a fact that crime and drug dealing are here but not nearly as badly as they can be made out to be. If i wanted them i could get to them before the days end in Warren County. But i also know that most of the people with them are drug addicts and no drug gangs like what was previously implied. There are a hanful of idiots in Vicksburg who wish they were in Scarface drug cartels but the police always get to them and make arrests whenever someone garners to big of a drug buisness buzz in this community. Everyone talks and most of the dealers snitch each other out in due time.

    In my opinion the biggest problem in Vicksburg is fear. and thats the kind that goes hand in hand with ignorance. look deeper into that fear and ignorance and you may find the starting point to make the community a better place.

    And Celtic War. If you want to swap stories then offer to buy me a lunch and im there on the dot.

  44. the thugs that dont have respect for anyone are the ones who were never given an ounce of respect from anyone from birth.

    not sayin its right but its the truth. When you are told and made to believe all your life that you will never be a person of worth you eventually give in and let negativity consume you. Once a person is consumed in negativity they are corrupted into believing thats all there is.

  45. A-J or who ever you wanna be???? Get over yourself! Do you even read what you write? Write to Jerry Springer. That’s your audience.

  46. Who is Jerry Springer?

  47. I think Obama was the one doin the shooting or at least he caused it

  48. way off subject

  49. Are we going to stand by and let young punks who have no respect for anyone run us out of our city? I will admit that I no longer walk in my neighborhood because I am afraid of getting mugged, but we have just as much right to live without worrying about getting shot, mugged, raped as they have to be there. We have the right to bear arms, right now anyway, so stand up for yourselves people. This is America. Don’t let anyone run you out of your homes.

  50. I totally agree. The police aren’t there when you need them, and won’t enforce the laws anyway. We have to face down the criminal element ourselves. Neighborhood watch/patrols are one possibility.


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