Vicksburg mayoral contest: Leyens vs. Winfield?

Assuming Alderman Mayfield or others do not enter the race, this year’s mayoral battle could well come down to a choice between Mayor Laurence Leyens and Board of Supervisor’s attorney Paul Winfield. Leyens has accomplished much for the city since his election to the office, but his frequent conflicts with others have earned him few friends. Winfield has apparently performed tolerably as Board attorney, but rumors of conflicts with business partners that have resulted in legal action may affect his candidacy. Your opinions of the two, pro and con, are invited.

Published in: on July 15, 2008 at 7:57 pm  Comments (56)  

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  1. Leyens will get my vote.

  2. Leyens IS the right choice! His past performance for the city speaks for itself. I don’t vote by personality. That said, I enjoy the mayor.

  3. With Paul Winfield in the race now the constutients are going to go down for generational vote. Mayor Leyens has done a lot for the community but he hasn’t done enough. He hasn’t brought in jobs for example and I believe the opposing party can make an arguement that he hasn’t done enough to make jobs. Also raising the nautral gas rates is going to come back to bite him. Expect him to be questioned on jobs and he should keep his mouth shut on criticinzing others. I’m not taking sides here but stating facts.

  4. Leyens has my vote also, he’s doing to much to hand it to someone else.

  5. What do you mean Chuck?

  6. By generational vote Paul Winfield is younger than Leyens is. There’s a ten years difference between them. Didn’t know that eh? That’s what I learned from the article.

  7. Chuck, more questioning your comment:
    “Expect him to be questioned on jobs and he should keep his mouth shut on criticinzing others. I’m not taking sides here but stating facts.”
    You’re wrong man. Not only are there many more jobs in Vicksburg now that Mayor Leyens is in office, there is a shortage of corporate housing. Can’t wait for those condo’s and apartments to be built in downtown that your said would be empty! If they were ready now, thanks to Mayor Leyens they would be full of tenants with rentals being guaranteed as paid by corporations. Ask locals who are getting up to $3k (“that’s three thousand dollars, Chuck”) a month for their one bedroom corporate rentals. Not a bad income, man. I love this mayor!

  8. Leyens is the best mayor Vicksburg has ever had, and is likely to ever have. More has been accomplished under his administration than in any comparable period of Vicksburg’s history.

    The drop in the job market has been in the county. Let’s include on this ballot a petition to annex the county.

    Chuck, whatever your issue is with his personality doesn’t fit with your normal ability to look at facts. Perhaps he has enforced a code to a property of yours, and you have a personal grudge against him. Either way we should elect officials on performance, not personality. And for the record, Mayor Leyens has had a personality transplant here of late. He has been downright charming the last three encounters I have had with him. He spoke at our group not long ago and blew us away AND was entertaining. He knows the issues, he has a plan and he is meeting his goals. Who is the last elected official of any party or position you can name that has done that?

    Paul Winfield is a likable guy, I find him to be personable and affable. The concerns I have about him center on his politics and stated desire to increase spending. That will ensure an increase in taxes. Chuck, that alone should be enough to sway you away from him. He was just elected treasurer of the Democratic party in the state. I have yet to meet a Democrat that didn’t want to spend and raise taxes.

    I will take the best mayor Vicksburg has ever had over any challenger.

  9. Chuck, you do realize that this is a community of older folks. The generational issue will work in Leyens favor, not that young whippersnapper.

  10. Great response Just Sayin. I didn’t understand the point in Chuck’s comments “By generational vote Paul Winfield is younger than Leyens is. There’s a ten years difference between them. Didn’t know that eh? That’s what I learned from the article.”

  11. The people of Vicksburg would be smart to keep Leyens in office. He has greatly improved this city and has done what he said he would do. I will vote for him this election without a doubt.
    The change the Mayor has brought to Vicksburg has been great. I wish he would annex the county. I have not a clue what in the heck my supervisor has done, if anything. ????

  12. The supervisors aren’t bad guys. They just aren’t effective.

    Annexing the county would be a great way to decrease our tax burden and improve services. With the effectiveness of this administration we could also fill up those factories again, get decent fire protection and have all of Warren County on the same path. Currently we have two paths, one going up and beyond, the other stuck in the muck.

    There is a legal issue that would have to be clarified. If we go with one government in Warren County it is my understanding that the County Board would be the governing body. That needs to change. Seems like I have seen somewhere on this board an idea about having four supervisors and a mayor. Each supervisor would have part of the city and part of the county in their area. Makes sense to me.

  13. Agree!!!No they are not bad guys but change is needed. The good old boy system is not working any more.people keep voting them back in, then complain about it.

  14. I like the 4 sups and a mayor idea. Even a city council. Mayor Leyens all the way!!!!!!!!!!!

  15. Also, congrats to our fine law enforcement for their outstanding accomplishments noted all over the paper this week. From theft to meth off the street I’m proud to have these folks cleaning our city. We should all feel a bit safer. “Keep up the excellent work and thank you!”

  16. Have you noticed that with the new DA the issue of ‘paperwork errors’ from the VPD has all but gone away?

    The VPD is reinvigorated now that the new DA is there. They feel their work is now going to actually be effective. Give it time and we will have this cities crime problem minimized as much as it can be minimized.

  17. Just Sayin, do you have first-hand information to back up your statement that the VPD is reinvigorated? Thanks.

  18. Bert, you can see it! I will answer your question. Do you have knowledge that they are not?

  19. In other words, there is no hard evidence of improvement? I see nothing different in the newspaper from two years ago, except maybe an increase in the number of crimes that show up there.

  20. Yes, I have first hand knowledge. I interact with police officers every day. They are thrilled that the criminals they arrest…and risk their lives for…are being kept in lockup, prosecuted and put away for years.

    Bert, some crimes will occur regardless of the quality or quantity of a police force. One cannot blame the police for a crime. You can give them credit for capturing criminals and preventing crime. You can also credit our new DA and his team with prosecuting cases. The combination of actually having criminals go to trial and our local judges passing out strong sentences is removing the repeat offenders from the street. When Ricky took office he had a backlog of over 900 cases that the old DA was not going to prosecute. That had been the case for years. Criminals did not take our justice system seriously. Now they do.

    Bert, compliment and thank a police officer when you see them. Tell them how much you appreciate their efforts and for putting their life on the line for your safety. We have a top notch, high quality and dedicated force. They appreciate the encouragement as much as anyone.

  21. # On July 19, 2008 at 11:47 am Bert Said:

    “In other words, there is no hard evidence of improvement? I see nothing different in the newspaper from two years ago, except maybe an increase in the number of crimes that show up there.

    Bert, we find what we seek. Look for the positives, we have many in our little town.

  22. Has anyone paid attention to the fact that he cheated on his first wife while in office, went to rehab, and possibly had the owner of J&B cab killed. He throws BBQ’s in Kings to gain the black vote. People’s votes are being bought with chicken! He has pushed out almost all the black owned businesses in downtown. He’s police force is completely corrupt thanks to his appointed boy Moffett. If you really think he is a good man, take a closer look…..YOU ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION!!! Oppose him in the next meeting and you may be the next person found dead with a city police force that is not doing much to find your killer.

  23. Flower, at least he went to rehab and it worked. Also, he helps others who have and that is a proven fact or as you have written FACT!!!!! ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION!!!!!!!????? Give him credit that he has made positive changes in his personal life as well as for this city. His first wife seems happy now. Shouldn’t you move on?

    As for your other comments, where is your proof? Oh, other than the BBQ chicken that I didn’t get to taste.

    And Just Sayin, thank you for your words about the law officers and DA in Vicksburg. They do need encouragement and it is up to us ALL to give it to them. THANK YOU!

  24. Flower123 are you part of the old guard? That is the only group still spreading these rumors about Mayor Leyens.

    He did cheat on his wife and married his mistress, that was wrong and between him, his ex-wife and God. We are all sinners. I have been taught to not judge people for their sins, only to love them and forgive them. All parties involved are fine now. The mayor and his new wife have an adorable child and are happily married. That child was born to loving parents who can provide the child with the best this life has to offer. Find some joy there.

    I have heard the rehab rumors too. All I can say on that is if he had a problem he fixed it and I admire anyone who overcomes an addiction. Shame on you Flower123 for trying to turn that into a negative. Your style of stone casting was put aside in the first century AD, try to forgive.

    The police force was corrupt and ineffective, that is why they brought Tommy Moffett here. He has done an incredible job of cleaning up and professionalizing the force – at a great political cost. Flower123 try to look beyond your hatred and you will see a strong professional, disciplined and highly trained group of law enforcement officers.

    No one can push a successful business out of any area. The last time I looked downtown the busiest place was Freds, with a largely minority customer base. The second busiest is F&G Liquor, again with a largely minority base. Third busiest is the Klondyke, again a largely minority base. Flower123 your comments in this area seem to be in conflict with the facts.

    The J&B cab comments are just silly. Flower123 how can you justify such a comment? That crime is still unsolved, if you have some credible evidence please provide it to the VPD, Sheriff’s Department, FBI or whomever you trust. Be responsible.

    It is beyond my comprehension how providing a cookout for residents of the city is bad. The mayor has also invested in and improved those area both personally and administratively as mayor. Please explain to me what is bad about providing meals to the residents of the Kings area.

    Flower123 times have changed in our little city. We have record investment, business growth, an excellent financial rating, incredible beauty and the best administration in our cities’ history. The city has invested in the sub structure and brought it up to date, a task that will benefit all of us, our children and our grandchildren. We have retooled the city with modern equipment, upgraded the technology and put in place systems to maintain efficiency.

    As I commented to Bert earlier, you will find what you seek. Flower, proceed from a point of goodwill, look at your city with a fresh set of unbiased eyes and count your blessings.

  25. Again, THANK YOU Just Sayin! I couldn’t say it any better.

  26. just saying—-you seem to make most of the comments on this page so you must be part of the mayor’s campaign. I don’t know what you mean by the old guard, so my answer would be no. As for downtown, Fred’s is not black owned business and the liquor store is ran by the Greeks. Where’s Willie Mae’s and Po Teddy, why do you think they’re gone…..not for lack of business, that’s for sure. He is just using his position in office to boost his real estate investments. BUT…If you are rich and white then vote for him and you’ll stay that way. I’m sure he’ll do lots of wonderful things right before voting time. If you want proof, you look a little harder. If you think Moffett is so great, talk to a few police officers that has been there longer than he has….if you can still find some. See what they have to say.

  27. 123, there are people of color who will be voting for Lawrence too AGAIN. As far as Willie Mae and Po Teddie’s, there were lots of you white folks that were there eating and supporting that place every day at every meal. How often were you there? You will need to ask them why they did not succeed not blame the mayor who was a regular customer …….. HUM!!! Yes, a regular customer “123” ….. Lawrence ate there “all the time and loved the food!” Ask him. Ask anyone who ate there. If you ate there you would know because you would have seen him there almost every day.

  28. I’m tired of hearing people complaign about Chief Moffett. If he’s so bad he would be gone. If there are officers that can not work under him or respect him then maybe they need to move on or re-evaluate their situation. I have heard not specifics here. What are they? I don’t like Asparagus. I won’t tell you why but most men will know. Give this man another chance people. With this new DA there are great things happening and about to happen in this city. You will see.

  29. Flower123 have you heard this story? Well I got it verified. And it didn’t appear in the Vicksburg Post.
    One of Mayor Leyen’s California Investors built an Apartment complex off Marcus Bottom. Now get this: his investor I don’t know who the name of him was but his apartment complex off Marcus didn’t make money. In fact it didn’t get any tenants. Why? Well I was told that the rent was too high for anyone to afford it. So Flower have you heard of this one?

  30. Flower, I am not part of Leyens campaign, I am one of his supporters. I support him because of the improvements in the city, the smart way the city is managed and because of his personal commitment to improving the city. You made mention of his real estate holdings. What are they? I am only aware of him buying dilapidated properties, restoring them and selling them. Again if you have credible evidence please present it. It may change my opinion. Hearsay is just that.

    Willie Mae and Po’ Teddy’s had an internal issue over ownership of the equipment. That led to them closing. Mayor Leyens did not shut them down, nor did he do anything other than support them, as Wilisa pointed out above. The issue of ethnic ownership of downtown businesses was addressed in your own post. The owner of Fred’s, the Liquor Store and several of the downtown buildings all have an ethnic history that is not white. Again your comments do not align with the facts. To suggest a ‘conspiracy’ to remove all the non-whites from downtown is beyond credible.

    The Police officers who have been with the force the longest are in positions of authority. Shift Sargent’s, Chief Investigators, trainers. Those officers who have been on the force for a long time and do not hold positions of leadership should look at themselves, not Chief Moffett. We have a top quality police force, why do people persist in trying to make it seem otherwise, regardless of the facts. If you doubt that drive over to Jackson and compare.

    Chuck, where is this apartment complex? The ones I am aware of in or near Marcus Bottom are full.

  31. Now we have heard about the Mayor, What are Winfield’s accomplishments and what difference would he make if he were elected mayor.. Anyone? Flower???

  32. Just Sayin’ I’m glad you asked. All I know is that this Apartment complex is off a road in Marcus Bottom. I don’t the name of the complex though. All I can honestly recall it’s a road on Marcus Bottom.

  33. Chuck when you figure it out let us all know. If there is a vacant building down there I will personally send people to apply that need housing. In the meantime I am also not aware of any that are vacant.

  34. “Flower 123” I found this on the Internet and am dedicating it to you respectfully:

    An elderly Chinese woman had two large pots, each hung on the ends of a pole which she carried across her neck.

    One of the pots had a crack in it while the other pot was perfect and always delivered a full portion of water.

    At the end of the long walks from the stream to the house, the cracked pot arrived only half full.

    For a full two years this went on daily, with the woman bringing home only one and a half pots of water.

    Of course, the perfect pot was proud of its accomplishments.

    But the poor cracked pot was ashamed of its own imperfection, and miserable that it could only do half of what it had been made to do.

    After two years of what it perceived to be bitter failure, it spoke to the woman one day by the stream. ‘I am ashamed of myself, because this crack in my side causes water to leak out all the way back to your house.’

    The old woman smiled, ‘Did you notice that there are flowers on your side of the path, but not on the other pot’s side?’

    ‘That’s because I have always known about your flaw, so I planted flower seeds on your side of the path, and every day while we walk back, you water them.’

    ‘For two years I have been able to pick these beautiful flowers to decorate the table.

    Without you being just the way you are, there would not be this beauty to grace the house.’

    Each of us has our own unique flaw. But it’s the cracks and flaws we each have that make our lives together so very interesting and rewarding.

    You’ve just got to take each person for what they are and look for the good in them.

  35. I will vote for him, no other real options but I find him slightly arrogant

  36. Well you can’t have everything..



  39. Mark, the bond issue did not increase taxes. The new bond is still being used. The road improvements you see downtown came from that fund. The improvements along the Oak Street corridor are in process. The new city park project is waiting on the Aquilla group. The repairs to the bridge on Washington street are also included in that fund and is in the bid process…it takes time to follow all the legals associated with government projects.

    Why in the world are you concerned about where Mayor Leyens goes on his vacation? What does that have to do with anything at all? You will have to explain that one to me, it doesn’t make any sense to me.

    It is obvious you don’t like the Mayor. Regardless of that you must acknowledge that our city is better off now than it was 7 years ago. The improvements to the city include more than flowers. The substructure of the city and the superstructure of the city have been improved. That means water and gas flow to you and the roads you drive on aren’t full of potholes. We have implemented systems that ensure efficiency. Our police force is credible and effective. Our fire department has the highest possible rating. Our bond rating is the highest possible for a town our size. We have a bus system, we have efficient city government.

    Mark, perhaps you need to see beyond your hate and look for the good. You will live longer.

  40. So the mayor cheats on his wife and snorts coke. Thats what poiticians do.
    But i had no idea he had Mr James of J&B cab co murdered.
    What do i have to do to get myself murdered by the mayor again because this sounds fun.

  41. I am not a regular reader of this site due to time constraints and your continued acceptance of made-up “facts” that become crazy and paranoid at best. (Thank you to the reasonable folks who keep stressing this point in every discussion in my defense!) Most of your questions, presented as facts could easily be researched. The facts and what government does is very accessible to everyone and is audited often by other government agencies. I have strived to insure accessibility to all government transactions without unecessary processes for open records. Why not focus on real issues that affect all of us, or the amazing growth trends and improvements that we all enjoy today?

    There are so many more opportunities ahead for this community, if only you would engage in discussing them without all of this negative perspective…

    Why not consider that maybe the Mayor and city government isn’t corrupt, or evil… and simply focused on this communities growth? I have learned to accept that I can’t make everyone happy and that not all decisions are perfect. I have worked real hard to make a difference that is meaningful to the majority of our citizens, not the few exclusive and often vocal folks.

    The reason I chose to respond today is the discussion of my personal life that is simply not your business and should not concern you.

    With regards to my wife, I met her about 3 months AFTER I moved out from my first marriage that failed after 14 years due mainly to issues such as this blog. She simply was not interested in the town being so involved in our personal life. Yes, my ex-wife is enjoying her life and we share a beautiful daughter that we both love very much. Today, Shelley and I are raising her son from her first marriage and our new baby boy. We are quite happy raising them in our wonderful community that we both love. As for my personal finances, which are none of your business either, I own exactly 3 properties in this community. Please feel free to check the court house records. My previous income was about 4 times higher than it is today as Mayor. I felt the desire to give back to my home in the best way I knew how. I can make investments anywhere in the world and have chosen on multiple occassions to invest here at home restoring older buildings. Yet it seems some of you resent that as well. How dare our Mayor invest in his own town! Huh? Every property I have purchased was on the open market.

    I do not own the Valley building and appreciate that an investment group based on my suggestion and reputation was willing to take a major downtown building that had been empty for 24 years and invest millions of dollars to bring new life into the building and the rest of our downtown. My family sold the building for less than what we paid in taxes and insurance over the 24 years that it was not in use. They already have people wanting to rent space and the first walls began being built this past Monday. (With the required permits of course!) The previous outside work did not require a permit although one was issued and was completed while the detailed plans and engineering were being developed for the entire project. Who the owners are and what their plans are is their business and their choice to share with you.

    As for property values… the only influence government has is by growing our economy which in turn creates demand for property which pushes values up. I believe this is a good thing… It is true that there are many properties that have been held for long periods of time (multiple generations) who have owners only willing to sell at tomorrows value not todays without any investment towards the renovation needed. This is hurting our new growth. Why would a developer want to work on one property if the neighboring properties are in disrepair? This has been the case at Speed and Washington multiple times as an example. All I can do is insure that they maintain their properties to minimum standards by law. I have worked very hard to bring into our community diversified investment dollars to insure a strong economic future for our children. We have made so much progress over the past 7 years. There will always be something not perfect, or another challenge in front of us… The future and the opportunities to make good decisions remain with the private sector. Government can only insure a stable, predictable environment. Government operates at multiple levels of our community and is not perfect either. We strive for fairness, and policies that reflect the communities values, not mine individually.

    What are you contributing to our community and childrens future? Talking on a blog is not an effective economic development tool! If you are interested in investing in property or a business development please call me and I will be happy to show you some wonderful opportunities to make a profit and to support our home and our economy. If not then at least join me in an informed positive discussion about our common interest… the future of our home!

    Sincerely Your Mayor,

    Laurence Leyens

  42. Leyens pwned yall.
    I think your a great mayor and your wife is nice too. I went to school with her.

    Id like to call you up one day and shoot the sh#t.

  43. I think Vicksburg is in sad shape with either of these two self servants at the helm. Leyens is a egomaniacal jerk who talks a good game about economic development but focuses on low wage service jobs. Between him and that Yankee idiot running the convention center and the incompetence at the Port Commission, Vicksburg will continue a path of mediocrity. Simpson Duravent consolidates operations to California???The business environment is California than Mississippi…that’s a new one!!

    I sold my property in the City this past December at a financial loss. The crime and lack of leadership were the key reasons. I saw first hand the good old boy politics there and was amazed that my homestate did such a great job of living up to its sterotypes.

    Winfield wouldn’t be better…just different, friendlier and not so ego driven.

  44. It is time for a change! Attorney P. Winfield gets my vote.

  45. Laurence Leyens has done much more for Laurence Leyens than he will ever do for the people of Vicksburg or for the poor, degraded city itself. Leyens’activities and self-interested behavior is nothing new, however. He’s just following in a long tradition of ego-centric hustlers who play on deep-seated, albeit publicly unspoken, racial loyalties and prejudices that are common throughout the South.
    What has Leyens done for Vicksburg? I live in Jackson now. And I assure you that Vicksburg’s image around the state is one mostly laughed at by respectable people all over.
    Just go to the court house and check the divorce papers his first wife filed against him. Imagine anyone with “unclean hands” vis-a-vis his own wife and infant daughter operating at the helm of a public body, namely the city government of Vicksburg.
    There is no question about the obvious superiority of a public man Paul Winfield over a phony little simpleton like Laurence Leyens. Leyens came to city government with no experience or knowledge of its requirements or even its basic rules. Compare Winfield’s resume: Two years a municipal judge, eight years as city attorney, five years as county counsel. Winfield is the son of Vicksburg’s first native-born civil rights lawyer and activist. Leyens, by way of contrast, is the son of a racist business heritage noted for its exploitation and divisiveness in this once-proud community.
    Let’s bury Leyens in May. Up with Winfield.

  46. Winfield’s abilities as board attorney may not require much expertise or time, or maybe someone else does the actual work. Mayor of the city is a different story however, and Winfield is not ready to be mayor. Kick the tires and look under the hood because Winfield looks good, but performs badly. Maybe next time.

  47. “Laurence Leyens has done much more for Laurence Leyens than he will ever do for the people of Vicksburg or for the poor, degraded city itself.”

    Funny. I see a lot around vicksburg he has improved. I also remember a mayor from not to long ago that did a lot to promote his on greed. What was that name…. oh yea Mayor Walker. Leyens, my not walk on water or turn water into wine. But he sure is better then some that came before him. And unlike Walker he is promoting racism with “black only” events.

  48. I support Winfield because he has honesty and integrity unlike Leyens. Honesty and Integrity go a lot farther in my book than planting trees and flowers around the city.

  49. I was curious when someone asked about Winfield’s accomplishments and what he would produce if he were elected mayor? His record signifies that he has never created any substantial change in any position he has held. I continue to hear “it’s time for a change” but why change from established progress to evident lack of production?

  50. What “established progress” are we talking about? The drug progress? Kinda funny how our mayor has a drug problem and the drug problem has escalated since he’s been in office. I think its also funny that one of the casino owners is a big Lawrence supporter. Why do the schools get so much less money from the casinos than the city or the county. The schools should be the biggest investment from our casino money. No wonder 90% of the kids in this town have become drug dealers or drug users. We expose drugs to our kids instead of good quality teachers. Thats the facts.

  51. Laurence Leyens is the only choice. You would have to be in a coma to not notice how much better our city is now. Vicksburg is not perfect but alot of progress has been made under Laurence’s guidance. I have tried to keep an open mind and look into what Paul believed in. I quickly realized after reviewing his website that he did not have what it takes to lead our city. There was not one page without a misspelled word. He even misspelled his own name. On the first page, he referenced his endorsement of the Plummer Union. I believe that is Plumbers Union. Also, consolidation is spelled with a T in it. These 2 examples are just from his main page. If the quality of his website is any indication of how he would run the city, then we are in serious trouble if he gets elected. It also troubles me that none of his supporters have noticed these gross errors. Paul was right about one thing when he said, “The City should be more proactive in partnering with local outreach programs focused on improving educational opportunities for our children to suceed.“ Paul, that is “succeed” not “suceed”. Everyone needs to check it out for themselves.

  52. Vicksburg has always been and will always be a racist torn city. That is the exact reason why I moved away. Good luck to all the hard working citizens that so often get looked over because of the color of their skin. Our day is coming saidth The Lord!

  53. seeit2believeit, Vicksburg is NOT a “racist torn” town. We have excellent race relations here. You are an example of a true racist, one who uses the race card with each of your failures – for which you alone are responsible. You and your kind will keep blaming the “white man,” even though you have been given the greatest opportunity for advancement ever given any race. Will you ever quit? No, I don’t think so. You’ll keep on with your hand out and a chip on your shoulder until the economy of this once great country collapses. Then you’ll be all the more angry, and resort to crime and violence to take from those who have worked to get where they are. I’m glad you moved away – please stay wherever you are!

  54. Bert- you have just proven what I thought to be very true. Your comment alone shows the racism “You and your kind”–“hand-outs–angry–crime and violence” Are African-Americans the only race that gets angry, commit crimes and violence? I think not!! History tells it all. As far as advancements its all about who you know —- unless your name is Bert. Who are you kidding racism alive and kicking and will be as long as there are Bert’s around.

  55. Take a look in the mirror, buddy – the real problem is right there staring back at you.

    • Bert-
      “We” all know who and what is the real problem, and as a child I can remember my grandmother saying to me “Baby if you don’t have anything nice to say about a person than don’t say nothing at all”, so Bert–goodbye!!

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