The Iraq war – should we pull out?

What’s your opinion?

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Published in: on March 25, 2008 at 5:40 pm  Comments (37)  

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  1. Not on your life. Never pull out out of a warfront.

  2. YES!

  3. What are the reasons behind the comments. Please

  4. Yes, and send Bush, cheney, and their corporate pigs to wallow in that sewer……oh, yes and the spineless congress and mercenary american herd.

  5. Unfortunately, we cannot withdraw today, given that once troops are committed, they must be removed in such a way as to maintain order and cohesion. That said, this conflict was misrepresented from the beginning. We were told this was about 9/11 and terrorism. Later, it was all about WMD’s etc. I cannot speak for others, but it seems that all of the so-to-speak reasons for this “war” have gone by the boards. Finally, there was no constitutional declaration of war issued by the Congress. We have a Constitution and it should have been observed.

  6. Patrick needs the learn the lessons of the Vietnam war when we pulled out back in the late 60s and early 70s. Iraq is a different conflict all together. He who studies military history should ever commander in chief has to draw the line on where the warfront is. Also Al Qaeda isn’t a nation but a faceless enemy. By the WMD lie was perputated in Ital by an African I believe. I read several articles about it. This is also asymetrical conflict. As for 9/11 there is relation here: Al Zayahiri was in Bagdad. For those of you who fall the nutty conspiracy theories about this,in the long run history is going to prove you wrong and so will the facts.

  7. Chuck, with your strong feelings what part did you take in this war?

  8. I have friends who served over there. Plus I’ve been reading alot about it.

  9. What is the feeling of your friends who have served? Mine (“friends who served and are serving”) are mixed. My main concern is the amount of money it is costing our country and the impact of the innocent families affected. Right or wrong it’s a tough call to make.

  10. Those that I know came back with positive feelings. Since my friends who were civilians who worked in and around the Green Zone of Bagdad and beyond. Another one I know is still out in field doing civil engineering work. I can understood those who have mixed feelings about it. I listen to those of both sides of the issue.The ones I can’t understand are those of who lead the anti-war movement and the movement has fallen on deaf ears. This isn’t the ’60s.

  11. Where are the WMDs which the president said were in Iraq and that precipitated the invasion of that country?

    Where is the direct link that Saddamm Hussein was involved in the 9/11 plot?

    What constitutes “victory” in this conflict?

    And the bottom line?

    4,0000 dead to date, 20,0000 plus maimed, 1.6 trillion dollars in cost and counting, potential for an even wider conflict in the Middle East with Iran which is another Pandora’s Box altogether.

    The president declared “mission accomplished” some years ago. Unfortunately the words of another commander comes to mind: “Another such victory as this and I am undone.” Pyrrhus of Epirus c. 275 B.C.

  12. Chuck: The Rev. brings up excellent points. Also, civilian workers and solders can not be compared. We know they do not perform the same duties. It’s almost like saying the prince has joined the effort in the war. “So? And who is protecting his life? Soldiers. While he plays la la la!!!” What about the innocent Iraqi’s that befriend the soldiers to help them with cover for several months, then are left to get killed when the soldiers get orders to RTB “Return To Base”??????

  13. The WMD controversary first of all was fabricated by some right wing zealots in Italy. I read several accounts in Vanity Fair and EyeSpy magazine. It’s good example of a ruse. It’s story that hasn’r really been told in the mainstream press. What made it intteresting was the fact it was fabricated. Now this ruse deceived everyone in the intelligence community including our own but don’t expect any aknowledgement of this at al from the intel community on this issue.
    As for victory it’s going to be a long haul. This is a much different war from the Vietnam war and to compare Iraq to Vietnam is so lame.
    I suggest that some of you read some of the books that are out on the Iraq war. Some are written from the soldier’s perspective. Victory is a hard thing to define at this point. Just check the bookshelves of your bookstore.

  14. Chuck, with all due respect, what came to mind after reading your comments was the saying “some people make the news and others just read about it.” Yes, there have been MANY books written. Blogs too. Columns. Articles. News released. Clips on the Internet. Etc… I haven’t been there and if I am correct you too have not. Maybe some of the family members that have lost relatives can give their perspective. Maybe people that feel so strong about the war can volunteer to go to the front line and be a part of it. Have you thought about going? Do you have a son or daughter you can send? A wife?

  15. Rev Dabney, the number is just over 4000, not 40,000 as you posted. When you compare that to any other conflict we have been in that is an extremely low number. One death is too many, but a reality of war is death.

    I can speak on this because I have a child in the Army.

    The reality of his situation causes me pain, as I am sure you can imagine. Having said that I support staying in Iraq.

    The reasons that led up to the war did include the WMD’s. Of course everyone, including Hillary, Nancy, Bill and all the other liberals thought the WMD’s were there. With the passage of time it seems the Liberal spin has been to forget their involvement in beating the drums.

    Congress voted to go to Iraq. You left that out of your post.

    The cost you posted is the cost of the Department of Defense, along with the cost of the War over the past five years. The cost of the War over the past five years is less than the cost of a single year of social programs in America. The cost of the War in the current year is 5% of the Federal Budget.

    If we pull out now those 4000 have died in vain and the country would descend into chaos leading to tens of thousands of deaths in that country.

    Keep the troops there, keep the peace, keep the Liberals from using the War as their personal whipping boy.

    How about this, rally the America hating Liberals to do something to improve America that doesn’t cost me money.

  16. Here’s another fact to keep troops in Iraq:Iran. Iran has been a growing influence of power within the middle east for the past several years. Not to mention skirting UN regulations on nuclear power. Also elements of Al Qaeda are in Iran and are protected by the mullahs. Also it has been revealed that the Iranian intelligence has been providing insurgents with resources for IED’s. Also Iranians are in custody in the combat zone. Those who suggest a rapid pullout like Sen. Obama and Sen. Clinton haven’t really addresse the Iranian side of their role in this conflict. Democrats who preach pullout are going to get burned by the real facts but thier arguements are empty. Al Sadr is an example of having an insurgent who has been backed Iran.

  17. The casualty count figures which I had earlier supplied were intended to reflect 4,000 deaths, not the higher number. I had my comma in the right place, but I typed in one too many zeroes. Thanks for the correction.

    I am not in the habit of comparing soldier body counts of one conflict with another because body counts are not and should never become the principle justification for continuing any conflict. The body count game was played in Vietnam and became the tar baby which held us there until 1973.

    If we are going to fight a “war” then the justification for such action should be presented to our Congress and they in turn must issue a formal declaration of war against the suspect foreign country, power etc. To do otherwise, violates our fundamental law and does not properly air out the reasons for such action. The current situation in Iraq is a fine example of mission creep. Where did this whole “nation-building” scheme come from? The Founders did not empower government to make war for the purpose of nation-building but to protect this country from a direct threat to its sovereignty.

    Where are the smoking guns which would confirm what we were told about Iraq and the Al Qaida connection? Where are those fabled WMDs? If those in charge had the proof of their claims, they would have long ago submitted such for a candid review.

    As for Iran, I have included a link to address that point.
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/lind/lind137.html

  18. Nice evasive action on the low number of deaths for American troops in Iraq. You were the one that brought up the death count for discussion. Why have you now backed away from it? It has been my experience that when a Liberal is faced with facts they change the course of the discussion. How is your action different?

    The justification for the US waging war on Iraq was given by a large, non partisan vote of Congress. You have again failed to acknowledge that and instead tried to infer some misdeed via ‘mission creep’. Congress voted to go to war. Address the issue.

    You went on to state the ‘Founders …[intended]…to protect this country from a direct threat to its sovereignty’ and then made a comment about ‘smoking guns’ on an al Qaeda/Iraq connection and the WMD. Again, with the passage of time the Liberal spin has been to infer a misdeed on the part of the President. You seem to have embraced that misinformation. Let me refer you to this link where you will see our Government, including the Democratic/Liberal side of the aisle all thought the threat was real.

    As you can see and hear with your own eyes and ears the threat was believed by all to be real and a direct threat to our ‘Founders …[intended]…to protect this country from a direct threat to its sovereignty.’

    The facts remain and are documented. One should ask themselves if they have become a pawn of their party.

  19. How about this, rally the America hating Liberals to do something to improve America that doesn’t cost me money.

  20. Not a bad idea for liberals to due. Here’s something evven better for American left liberals who hate this country. Provide refunds.

  21. Well said Rev. ….and some people haven’t realized the war against the states ended either.
    The makers of Nintendo spends three times as much on research as does the USA on education. Possibly Chuck and his pals are playing war games on Nintendo waiting for the next Playstation in between blogs.
    From: “Madame Drew the Republican Voter, not a liberal Democrat.”

  22. Also chuck, speaking of education…… research the different use of “due” and “do” in a sentence.

  23. Boy Drew u have such misconceptions about people. First I don’t play Nintendo but I have played Star Wars pc games which I have the enstemm rank of Veteran Pilot. Second don’t give me a damn lecture you know it all types are a big turn off. Second misconception: I find the civil war a boring subject. You really don’t know about a person is what forming in my mind. For a Republican your know it all attitude is a put off. I’d voted for Reagon,Bush,and the present bush. It’s attitudes like your that turn people. Pardon my misspellings so u better watch it. You’re sentence phrases give one the impression you’re liberal. Also one who is anti-war which I read in Rolling Stone Magazine got screwed by thier own party I might add.
    I don’t spend all my time playing Nintendo games. What a misconception.

  24. I was not being evasive or backing away from anything. I simply acknowledged a typographical error which you pointed out.

    The Constitution has not been observed, the president’s comments to the contrary notwithstanding as he did not ask for a formal declaration of war. That is what the Constitution calls for.

    And the Iraq Survey Group did not find much evidence of a pre-invasion weapons program and what they did find would not warrant labelling the Iraqis a “threat” to our national security. Any nation that can combine hostility with capability is a threat. Where is the evidence which would substantiate their being labelled a threat? Currently we face a bigger threat from Russia and China than we ever faced from Saddamm’s Iraq. Do we go after them next? I would think not.

    Unless you can answer my questions which I posted earlier, I’d have to say that you’ve “shot your bolt.”

  25. On larger threasts I would have disagree. China is a much larger threat than Russia is. Did you know that China conducted cyperspace attacks? Well they did. Iran is another one to look at. Iran wants have a nuclear program and wants to expand thier sphere of influence in the region. But in Iran there is a proamerican element that has not been activated. But Iran has been playing a defacto war with the us. Al-Sadr is backed by them.
    I hear some interesting accounts of what happen to the WMD’s. One is that they are in Syria. Ever hear of that one? We supposely have evidence which hasn’t been made public.

  26. I read about it awhile back. Could be. Unfortunately, there has been no hard intel on them being in Syria.

    As to China being a bigger threat than Russia, they are on account of their economic muscle combined with their growing nuclear capability. But while Russia is down it certainly is not out. Putin and company are attempting to rebuild the Russian missile force.

    I am familiar with the cyber warfare angle of the PRC or the “Chicoms” as we used to call them. They also have developed anti-satellite weapons and are setting up their own GPS.

    During the Cold War days, there was an expression going around which said that the Communists would sell us the rope with which they would hang us. China could pull the plug on our economy if they did not mind hurting themselves. They have a huge trade surplus with us and it would seem that killing our economy would not be in their best interests. On our end, we should be taking steps to reduce our dependence on them, or, at the very least, we should be moving to level the economic playing field.

  27. Chuck, I enjoy your debate and strong opinions. It is clear this war is an important issue for you.

    How do you imagine our next Republican president will handle this situation and how do you believe he will bring the troops home?

  28. Look at this way. The next president is going to have to deal with Iran too. As for Iraq if the conditions approve on the ground that’s when a draw dowm could happen. All though one has predicted for the spring anything could still happen. But Iran is too is in Iraq in a defacto conflict. But it depends on how the war conditions are,the next president will get advice from his generals before making a descion for a drawdown. I believe the drawdown would be thought out. Not hastily done.

  29. thank you for the voice of reason reverand dabney!

  30. I do not oppose of our men coming home, but yet we do need to keep in mind that we have now created a dependency and hope with the Iraqi people that cannot just be taken away and stand there on its own. I think if we slowly take our time in the helping of these people, we can make a difference and soon bring our soldiers home…

  31. Reverend Dabney, indeed you brought up numbers killed in Iraq to enforce your point. When you were countered on that issue you replied: “I am not in the habit of comparing soldier body counts of one conflict with another because body counts are not and should never become the principle justification for continuing any conflict. The body count game was played in Vietnam and became the tar baby which held us there until 1973.”

    If comparing body counts is not justification for continuing a conflict why did you bring up the issue of body counts? It appears to me you want to use body counts to enforce your point and disallow anyone else using body counts to make their point. The point is that after a 5 year conflict in Iraq the body count is extremely low. If you compare that number to any other conflict, or any five year period without conflict the facts remain the same, regardless of your desire to ignore those facts. Be forthright, Reverend.

    I share your disappointment that an official Declaration of War did not occur. Why did all those Democrats in Congress vote for it? You also avoided that topic in your response and instead diverted to how the President acted inappropriately. Give responsibility where it is due, it was Congress that voted to go into Iraq. Quit inflaming hatred against the President, Reverend.

    You have also avoided talking about the video I posted for you. It clearly shows that the talk of WMD in Iraq was not a Bush specific issue. It shows Hillary and Bill Clinton, Madeline Albright and all the other leaders of the Liberal Party speaking about the existence of those WMD’s. When we went to War against Iraq the WMD’s were thought to be there on a bi-partisan basis, not just by your whipping boy Dubya. Mentioning Russia and China as larger threats is a diversionary tactic, common among Liberals. Address the facts before you without bringing up new inferences intended to conjure up fear or hatred, Reverend.

    I have no idea what you are talking about when you posted “Unless you can answer my questions which I posted earlier, I’d have to say that you’ve “shot your bolt.” That’s an interesting statement from a Reverend. Please post your questions in a straight forward format that my tiny brain can understand.

    To save your some brain time let me state my position clearly for you. Iraq under Saddam was a threat to the United States. Congress voted to go to War. WMD’s were thought to be a real and present danger by both parties, England and Israel. The UN inspectors were constantly diverted by Saddam from conducting their search.

    For clarity, here’s a couple of things to address in your response:

    1.) We have a low body count in Iraq.
    2.) There was Bi-partisan support against WMD.
    3.) Congress voted to go to War.
    4.) You are repeating a party line.

    My bolt is reloaded and awaits the next target.

  32. If you will read what I wrote, I did not cite the casualty figures to support the conflict. I do not like the idea of using them to justify continuing this war. To end it, yes, to continue it, No.

    The video clip you supplied is a well-made piece of Neconservative propaganda. The video was designed to stir the passions of its viewers in support of the unsupportable. You have supplied no evidence to support any of the claims for the conflict. It therefore has no justification. You should take a bit of your own advice and stick to the facts.

    People in both parties have supported this conflict because it was predicated on faulty intelligence. You must remember that people used to believe that the world was flat. Only after discovering differently did they change their minds. I am not going to defend either the Democrats or the Republicans. They both have their reasons for their positions, none of which, I might add are good for John Q. Citizen.

  33. Ask yourself then why we kill people who kill people to show them that killing people is wrong.

  34. I think that we need to be “pulled” out of war because we aren’t over there for the right reasons anymore! But I know that it would be stupid to do it right now because once someone committes to something they need to follow through with it! I think that President Bush should get his spinles, self-centered, ignorite self over there and finish what he started!

  35. To start my reply off I’ll just say that I believe we should not pull out for a couple reasons. Yes we do need to end this war..but to do that we must use force not just pull out. If we pull out it makes the United States look weak. But by staying in it we set an example to the other countries that the US does not screw around and is not afraid to use force if needed. Another reason why I believe we should stay in is that if we pull out, whose to say they won’t use bombs or another terrorist attack on us? Then after that happens Americans will regret it even more if they pulled out..we need to stay in and finish this off by using full force. And yes I’m enlisted in the USMC, I ship out July 6, 2009 for basic training. I joined because I want to help in this war, so instead of getting opinions from friends and/or family of military people…why not just get the opinions of the people who are/are going to serve in the military..after all it is their life and they choose to protect their country.

  36. Oh and people…for future reference, next time you try to argue your point, make sure to use correct grammar and spelling or else it does make you seem like a complete idiot.

    At Cortney: correct spelling is..
    committes= commits
    spinles = spinless
    ignorite ignorant

    If you’d like to try to rgue your point with me my email is: FutureMarine69@hotmail.com
    add me to msn if needed, if you come off as a complete idiot you will be ignored. Have a nice day ^_^

  37. Honestly, this is my personal oppinion on this subject. We entered this war with a purpose. It may seem like we arent getting anywhere but slowly we are making progress. If we werent over there right now, we would have a greater fear of being under attack. Our troops being over in Iraq are keeping us safe. They signed up for the job and they knew what they were getting into. I couldnt thank them more for doing a job i know i could never do. We have commited to fighting this war and if we pull out it will just be a sign of weakness. I understand we miss our troops and we hate losing them when tragedy strikes but this isn’t just a job this is a life style that they have chosen. I feel like in time we can back out of this war but now is not the right time especially after announcing it. When we do leave we should do it secretly so no one is aware. This will give us a better chance of not being under attack. Once again this is just my opinion im only 16.


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